Offtopic

La sugestia lui Preda, pentru ca si al treilea  Off-topic s-a aglomerat, inauguram aceasta pagina. Pe care care puteti lasa stirile despre maghiaromani care ne-au scapat, alte stiri despre minoritati, dar si orice alte linkuri.

Vedeti si Offtopic 2 & Offtopic 1

241 thoughts on “Offtopic

  1. Maghera @ It now went through my mind that you might have interpreted my words “Larry Watts, a free american”, as some kind of antiquated apology of the American freedom, like deducing the freedom from the fact of being american. SORRY, no in present times my meaning is clearly “a free spirit, DESPITE of being American”. The reason may be in part, that he travelled a lot. But he is free, despite of that not because of that. So if that was part of the problem, I was possibly too laconic.

  2. Dear Maghera – I had written a long reply, and it got lost! Sh.t! Here, short:
    You say 1. “No real mention of later years, 70s, 80s, 90s – years I can attest to personally.”
    2. “I think that Mr. Watts demonizes Magyars a little bit in there (maybe unwittingly) by equating them with the actions of Budapest from the post-treaty years.” 3. “I personally don’t like to be treated one way or the other because some government that was made up of people of the same ethnicity as myself have made some piss-poor decisions decades or centuries ago.”

    Crossed between 1 and 3, you certainly are not aware that little it has to do with passed time. Only it was not allowed to talk about what happened in present times, because the grip of Russia was stronger than anything before. And Hungary played well with Russia! So this takes care for the 70, 80-es. Romania had danced out of the circly VERY early, they tried to kill Dej and destabilize the bad partner. Invested much in this – and Hungary was always a good followers of Moscow’s will in the dance, and received the carrot of the promess with Transilvania – for this you have to read the book, one article is not enough. But you will certainly see the point.

    But in your article, Watts points very clear to the problem: they did not wish to heal Trianon, they left it become cangrene, they tried and keep trying to take some kind of recompensation for it. But the problem is that – not knowing themselves what, all their incredible organization and perseverence, turned over and over against them! This is not even a scorning, it is a matter of fact, which could even be lovingly, since it touches the core of the problem.

    I can understand your rage, when you say that you don’t like to be treated some way because of things which you assume to be long time passed. This is a drama – the ones who do it, probably only know themselves the things passed. But the truth is that they act also on behalf of things very present! The game never ended my friend, not in 1944, not in 57, not in 63 and not in 89! Under communism they sticked with Russia, played all dirty tricks immagined by them on us, had there teacher’s role with Bessarabia – show how to bend Romanians it was called. And in ’89 both Russians and Hungary so much hoped that Corneliu Manescu, the long time russian spy, made it to presidency, that they announced it a as a fact on TV – maybe also to provoke some movement. But good enough to see what the attitude was, in ’89.

    They believe and make believe they do it for you, but it is against you, people from Transilvania. They think of anything, only of the obvious not: take the Romanians serious! They go to the end of the world inventing means to put them under pressure, cheat from above. Never it seems that it occured to some of them: “Hey, but what about taking them serious, like ourselves?”.

    I know what you talk about. Do you think I liked to be questioned thrice a week about a cultural genocide in my country, that never happened, while the life of my conationals did not count, because the calomny started from Hrusciov already, wanted that they are “mamaliga nu explodeaza”. True, false? Mamaliga explodase in 57-63 in nasul lui Nikita ca l-a ametit, si tare s-a infuriat. And the guys in Budapest hoped to get some gain from Transilvania, from serving and following Russia so closely. How much they have done, you will wonder. We could not know, this things were outspoken, and the most terrific ones had the seeds planted in full Stalinism, and were working on. Yes, Maghera, not once, not twice, dozen of times I had to feel on my skin the efficiency of the Magyar World Association, the application in the work of denigration. And of control – they made it clear: we have the interpretation stronghold for Romania in the media and public opinion here, make your thing, but know that you are on our territory! Idiots, but nice dressed, full of themselves and efficient. What does it serve you, in the end?

    You see on this blog that they breed a new, soft version of the old. You see it in the fact that most readers are trained into expecting, not giving. Endless empathy in terms of both legislation, rights but also complaints and understanding – they expect. But when it comes to saying a word about Romanians losing their identity in their own country – a human word, no accusation. Booh, don’t talk about that. Or ANY other concern which is not theirs, but ours. Booh, it is not acceptable. And nobody told them nore did they realize, that in the end they get what they give. As you see several so nice people here – they do not substantially miss the real stuff of human relations, with Romanians too. I mean, when it comes that these lose their identity in their own country, a normal person would step out of the kindergarden of “buba mea este mai mare ca buba ta” and start discussing in common some questions – these guys suffer in their (majority) country, the problem that torments us too. This should be a hint that some things are beyond good or bad faith of this or that, are not optimisable, so to speak. But this does not occur to them.

    This is quite sad Maghera, but I am convinced – it can only change when someone decides to very actively shift from the long tradition of smart policies (see the words of the journalist I mentioned above) to the natural one: take the Romanians serious, stop working on them, work with them! AND ASK THAT from Budapest and the League too, otherwise it is worthless.

    The only solution is always the simples, no matter if it seems hard in the beginning. And you know, I do not defend Romanian policy, even less some idiots who make it a problem to write some stupidities in Hungarian. I do not appreciate this. But I cannot hide either from the perception that this is the level at which well motivated diffidence has got entangled. Who does not accept and understand this, will believe it is all a circus, not real!

    • I don’t have the time right now to respond in as much detail as I’d like, but let me reiterate my main point. The rights of the Hungarian minority in Romania should have NOTHING to do with what Budapest or Hungary does. Yes, I do know that Hungary gets involved from time to time in the interest of Magyars living outside its borders (and maybe it even oversteps some boundaries occasionally), but that’s a tangential relationship. Romania’s minorities are their own citizens, and should not be treated as some property of Hungary, that they forgot to take with them when they moved out of Transylvania.

      And now to the topic of denigration. The topic of Romania being badmouthed by Hungary is something that’s come up a few times here, and it’s also something that is the focal point of what Mr. Watts states. I’m not sure I agree with all of those accusations, but there’s some truth to it for sure. Let’s imagine for a moment that all those things are taken away. Is Romania left with a sparkly-clean image after that? How much of that negative publicity of Romania comes from Hungarian bad-mouthing? How does that compare to the other negatives? I’m really not trying to talk badly about Romania here, but I feel we need a reality check and to put things into perspective. I do agree with you that the tactics of negative publicity are not helpful for anyone. However, in order for Romania to get a better image, working on changing the country for the better is a far more efficient way than trying to weed out those talking badly about it.

      • Maghera @ I follow your point – I would love to live in a world where what you say can be realised. This is like saying: the social welfare of a country, or the medical care _have nothing to do_ with what banks and stocks do. By God, we saw how much they have, we cannot dream!

        And yes, then and today, there is a persistent line of influence from abroad. The Transilvanians Maghyars are the lost brothers for and in the name of which the World Association, and the Budapest policy makers play their games. And the impact against Romania has been devastating, more than once and until recently. And they still try to monitor the image of Romania internationally as if it was the most natural fief of theirs.
        So positive thinking alone cannot ban this from the world. If alone the Maghyars in Transilvania were all pure and pristine. But they are not, and the strategies are long term strategies, and you seem them playing them. (they: some, like always!) How do you see? Simply: because they do not act like humans, they act like activists, in more than one respect. First, they are incapable of empathy for others and refute to put their own issue in RELATION to the problems of the times and the area. THEIRS is an absolute one. Detestable! And second, in their way to keep asking, you see that it does not matter WHAT they ask, what matters is that they KEEP asking. And this is the simple reason why they don’t get it, because people are thick and tired and do not trust them a bit any more. How trust them, when they never recognized what has been done? When you see the aggressivity that comes out as soon as subjects are brought up where they are not the suffering angels. Larry Watts just gives facts, and confirms that there have been very active plans, initial crimes and perseverent coordination – what the normal mortal has encountered in life with saddness and desiliusion, was triggered from somewhere.

        Now back to your problem. We are two to agree that all this is in the first line to the bigger sufference of the common hungarian people in Rumania. Because they did have a living with Romanians, which became worth, because they are hardly part of the core machinery, they follow the wind and have no particularly revanchard ideas – yet the reaction of defense of Romania, which is now fighting back alone since more than 70 years has more impact on them. And this is sad. So the problem that you raised, we agree upon. But you have to correct the addressee. It is NOT the Romanians. As long as Magyars of Romania do not stand up and say “We live our relation with Romanians, not you, so we allow you no comment on that. And we allow you not to monitor and control the Romanian public opinion image for our sake, and all that you have been doing and still do!”.

        I do not know exactly what they do now with Orban. But I do know that the plans and structures have had such an unmistakeable continuation since 1923 until 1993, that they obviously go on. Thinking less is asking for harm.

        An other sign that there is no wish for a reciprocal solution. I have repeatedly insisted here that the only way out is that maghyars of Transilvania work together with Romanians, of like good faith, to build up a social resistence, a civil society which models step by step the reciprocal, dignified togetherness. Working together and saying no to Budapest, and opposing Bucharest as much as possible. On base of realities, made together. Well, I could have been yelling in church, the reaction would not have been worth. Can you tell me: why do they believe to be so fair and correct, yet the word together scare them …. ca matania pe drac. They are in love with some Tax heavens in the Baltic sea, with Südtirol, they are in love with counting words written in hungarian on this and that document, and can kill their time on that, obliging others to loose theirs too. Only no real discussion, no memory, separation, complete seggregation not only of humans, but even of thoughts. THIS STINKS!
        Maghera, this stinks, and even if I do not know what the current plan is and could not care less, it is obviously a new, persistent and as stupid plan as all that has been since 1920. I wonder how can such an efficient, inventive and smart nation suffocate itself emotionally in such a way, that their efficiency which badly harms the others, does not do any good to them. This is the scoprion psychology! Maybe Hungarians are scorpions as a nation?

      • Maghera 2 – to your attempt to discuss the topic of denigration, since you are a friend, which I can say in due sincerety, here is my comment. It is an anecdote. A good friend – we Godfather/Mother to a marriage of common friends, is born in Haiti as daughter of a black dentisit an a white Irish blooded sociologist. They had a great childhood, but the father dying and things changing in Haiti, it was better to move to New York. The girl was in her teenage, they lived in a poor WASP neighbourhood, the girls were more and more unhappy. “What is the matter with you, I work for you, I care for you, what can I do more?” asks the mother. “Mother, there is too much racism in this neighbourhood, it is unbearable!” – “Common girls, you invent, I live in the same neighbourhood, I see no racism” – “LOOK at your skin, mother!”.

        So much about your aptitude to perceive the impact of calomnia. It has nothing to do with your good or bad faith, look at your skin, it won’t touch you! Look the most elementary thing – trying to change some things in Wikipedia about the history of Romania, which a desaster of indifference and laissez faire. Spread the sense of a will to make some clarity, there is a coordinated pair of long time contributors, very Maghyar, spreading politely the same old bullshit – and indicating that Romania is there territoriy of information. Why? Why do this m.f. not care more to bring more interesting knowledge about the Huns and their relations to Hungarians, about Khazars, etc. etc Why are they there just to destroy and suffocate anything positive that can be said about Romanians? YOU explain me!

  3. In urma unei discutii cu colegul OLorand, care e ocupat cu un nou serviciu, am convenit ca de azi sa inceteze activitatea de moderat comentariile. Va continua sa fie unul dintre autorii nostri pe blog.

  4. Maghera @ Final remark – “in order for Romania to get a better image, working on changing the country for the better is a far more efficient way than trying to weed out those talking badly about it.” We are not children and talking like children does not help. You know how much sense this makes. It is like saying – to use the other exmaple – that if you want to sanitize the economy of a country, you have to clear the budget, don’t spend, and especially do not care about the habits of stocks, THAT IS IRRELEVANT. Bullshit!

    Nobody is trying to outwead the bad tongues, be in peace. I am simply mentioning a fact true as actio-reaction. They exist, the reaction exists and the Romanian Maghiars suffer. It is so simple. Call me names like the other, think what you want of me – the fact is that this is not more than a brotherly indication. You cannot hide it! After such a long time, and so many verifyable facts! And if there is no clear demarcation line, you know: “Cine s-a fript in supa sufla si in iaurt”. This is where we are now, and calling Romanians names, and primitive and enemies of human rights, leads nowhere. They are not, they have been deceived, and unless someone comes out and speaks openly on this, they will keep mistrust about deception. It is only human, you are not different! It is impossible to tell them that with all understanding and simpathy for their worries, Romanians in Bessarabia have gone through real ethnic cleansing, milliion deportation, etc.etc – all that Romanians have in mind about their own “minoritie” through all SE – Europe. So that it would be fair to ponder and put in relation. What do you get? Yells! As if you were trying to change subject – THEIRS is the subject. Consistent, even on this blog, Maghera. It is a state of mind. This is what I speak about.

    And normal, great people who can disolve all the mistrust with one phrase – and love to do it – they stay at a distance, do not talk much. And tell you that they may be hated for their standpoint. How about this? Are we Romanians supposes to pretend we do not see it, because it is not nice to look in the family relations of the others? But what if we are comfronted with the consequences all the time?

  5. Are cineva timp sa traduca acest articol? As vrea sa se inceapa o discutie despre aceste intamplari care ma umplu de tristete fata de comportarea conducerii scolii si a unor parinti. si am ingrozeste gandul la ce educatie dau acesti parinti copiilor lor…
    http://erdely.ma/hatranyban.php?id=143955

    • Si normal, mi-e groaza sa ma gandesc ce fel de adulti vor deveni copii care au astfel de parinti xenofobi si plini de ura fata de maghiari…

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